Razgovor:Kvalifikacije za popunu Druge savezne lige 1973.

Online sources

@Ame71, from [1]

• GOŠK Dubrovnik – Pobeda Prilep 0:3, 0:2
• GOŠK Dubrovnik – OFK Titograd 2:2

– Croxyz ^💬 18:10, 13. prosinca 2024. (CET) @Ame71, some games can be found here

@Ame71, Suradnik:Ame71/Stranica_za_vježbanje#Bosna_i_Hercegovina is missing the quarterfinals. See Kvalifikacije_za_popunu_Druge_savezne_lige_1973.#Sudionici_4 – Croxyz ^💬 17:52, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71:

Borba, 9. jul 1973., str. 9.

• GOŠK vs Pobeda 0:3 (confirmation)
• Vrbas vs Dinamo Pančevo 1:0 (confirmation)
• Rad vs Dubočica 3:0 (missing result)

– Croxyz ^💬 18:00, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

Borba, 16. jul 1973., str. 9.

• Dinamo Pančevo vs Vrbas 4:0 (confirmation)
• Rad vs Voždovac 2:0 (missing result)
• Pobeda Prilep vs OFK Titograd 1:0 (missing result)
• Budućnost Peć vs Vlaznimi 1:0 (missing result, Kosovo)

– Croxyz ^💬 18:19, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, looks like I'll have to read the entire page of every issue...

Borba, 23. jul 1973., str. 8.

• UNIS vs Kozara 2:1 (confirmation)
• Voždovac vs Rad 2:1 (missing result)

The paper also states that Kozara and Rad beat their opponents 2:0 in the first leg (confirmation)

• Jedinstvo Brčko vs Sloga Doboj 1:0, 0:1 (5:4 for Jedinstvo on penalties). Extra time isn't mentioned so I don't know if the penaltiues took after the 90th minute. (missing results)

We have an error: Kozara iz Bosanske Gradiške (pobjednici četiri skupine u BiH bili su Sloga iz Doboja, Elektrobosna iz Jajca, Mladost iz Lištice, Bosna iz Sarajeva, u finalu Sloga savladala Bosnu, potom je u drugoj fazi Kozara bila uspješnija od UNIS-a, Jedinstva od Sloge jedanaestercima, a na kraju je Kozara slavila u revanšu u izvođenju jedanaesteraca u Brčkom)

Sloga couldn't have beaten Bosnia in the finale, as the finale was played between Jedinstvo Brčko and Kozara.

• Pobeda Prilep vs GOŠK 2:0 (confirmation)

– Croxyz ^💬 18:34, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, this is taking way too much of my time and this week I'm really busy. Without any match dates this is really hard. Plus not all matches occured in this short time frame. For example on 12th/13th July the Macedonian Federation decided there would be qualifiers but they do not know when. They also stated that Pobeda will take part in case it doesn't qualify through the interrepublic qualifiers (with GOŠK Dubrovnik and OFK Titograd). The following day Rabotnički declared that they wouldn't participate in te qualifiers as they believed that they should automatically qualify because they won the Macedonian championship. I see that Rabotnički participated in the end meaning that they changed their mind. Another problem I have is the bad OCR. If the OCR wasn't terrible I'd find the results in no time, but this way I'm forced to read every single daily issue. – Croxyz ^💬 19:26, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

Bosnia and Herzegovina qualifiers probably looked like this:

Two phase qualifiers. The first phase consisted of 4 zona winners

Semifinal:

Sloga Doboj vs Elektrobosna Jajce (unknown which match took first)

Mladost Bosna vs Bosna Sarajevo 0:0, 0:6

Final:

Sloga Doboj vs Bosna Sarajevo (unknown which match took first, Sloga is the victor)

Second phase (Sloga and 2nd division clubs):

Semifinal

• Kozara vs UNIS Vogošća 2:0, 1:2
• Jedinstvo Brčko vs Sloga Doboj 1:0, 0:1 (5:4 for Jedinstvo on penalties)

Final

• Kozara vs Jedinstvo Brčko 2:1, 0:1 (4:3 pen.)

– Croxyz ^💬 19:38, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

• I finally found some dates: 8, 11,15,22, 25 and 29 July. Will go and check to see if I'll find anything.

– Croxyz ^💬 19:40, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

The dates from above are Druga savezna liga Istok qualifiers.

I found nothing for the 11th of July.

Borba, 26 jul 1973, str. 10.

Interesting facts which we may use for FK Rad Beograd: Up until 4 years ago (that should be 1969) Rad played in the city league (Belgrade). Almost all players work in a construction company called Rad. In 1958 the club played in the 3rd Belgarde league (Treća beogradska liga). Three years ago (that should be 1970) it started competing in Srpska liga. This is correct (Srpska nogometna liga – Sjever 1970./71.). During the winter (this should be end of 1972 or beginning of 1973), Rad defeated the Kuwaiti champion 4:0 and 3:0 somewhere in Kuwait. Famous clubs previously lost in Kuwait, including Santos (back in the 60s Santos was one of the best clubs in the world, Pele played there)

Qualifiers:

• "Rad vs Dubočica 4:1, 3:0" (it should be Rad vs Dubočica 3:0, 4:0. I don't which game was played first)
• Rad vs Voždovac 2:0, 1:2

– Croxyz ^💬 20:03, 15. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, [2]

Zadar vs Rovinj 3:1 (not 3:0, as our article claims, this should be corrected in the article you're currently making and in this one)

Metalac vs Zagrebački plavi 3:3 (it can be seen in the left corner) – Croxyz ^💬 01:25, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

Actually, those are results for the next league season. – Croxyz ^💬 01:34, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Croxyz, I worked BiH and Serbia (I hope "Rad vs Dubočica 4:1, 3:0" is the right one). In Kosovo you know only the score "Budućnost Peć vs Vlaznimi 1:0"? and are we sure it was a single match? I think it's a semifinal, because fsgzrenjanin says the final was Budućnost v Obilić in Kosovska Mitrovica.Ame71 (razgovor). 10:57, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, I made a mistake regarding Rad vs Dubočica. By accident I copied the results between Rad and the Kuwaiti champion. What I meant to say is that the results should be written as Dubočica vs Rad 1:4, 0:3. As Borba is a Belgrade daily, it seems that it only covered the Druga savezna liga – Istok qualifiers. The only two exceptions are:

a) one of the two Dinamo Vinkovci – Rovinj matches as the latter literally took place 3 days before Druga savezna liga – Zapad started

b) 2nd leg of Bosnia and Herzegovina semifinal where they also mentioned the results of the first leg. Speaking of Bosnia and Herzegovina, we have a list of dates for all Kozara matches. None of them were reported by Borba except the aforementioned semifinal fixture.

I believe that Rad vs Dubočica should be displayed as Dubočica vs Rad 1:4, 0:3 because this Borba issue claims that the Druga savezna liga – Istok qualifiers will be played on July 8th, 11th, 15th, 22nd and 25th. Since the July 9th issue reported that Rad defeated Dubočica 3:0, while the July 16th edition reported that Rad played against Voždovac (not Voždovački as this Wikipedia article suggested previously, FK Voždovac Beograd was formed this very year, 1973, by a merger between Voždovački and Sloboda). I think it's safe to assume that the first fixture took place in Leskovac, Dubočica's home city, with Dubočica losing 1:4.

As for Budućnost Peć vs Vlaznimi 1:0, we only have

Будућност (П) — Влаз

ними 1:0

written in big bold letters. No context is given for that match nor is any other Kosovo match listed among the libnked Borba issues. Due to this, I don't know if this is the first or second fixture between Budućnost and Vlaznimi – Croxyz ^💬 13:47, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, for Bosnian clubs sadly I can't find anything. What I did manage to find that Elektorobosna Jajce won Krajiška (not Banjalučka) zona. See the headline: "Elektrobosna" iz Jajca prvak Krajiške zone – Croxyz ^💬 14:01, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, I added all of the missing results to this article, along with Borba references. – Croxyz ^💬 14:54, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, what is your source for Zadar vs Neretva in Nogometno prvenstvo Jugoslavije – 3. ligaški rang 1972./73.? Should we add it to this article, as well as the results between BSK and Metalac Osijek? – Croxyz ^💬 15:05, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Croxyz I couldn't find any source (topic: 1973 kvalifikacije Zadar Neretva). I see Zadar played the semifinal v Rovinj, so I deduced that Zadar beat Neretva. Ame71 (razgovor). 15:13, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71 I think it’d be the best if we remove any mention of Zadar vs Neretva since we have no sources. It’s possible that Neretva played against e.g. Zagrebački plavi – Croxyz ^💬 15:47, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Croxyz on Vremeplov 4: Ligaška takmičenja od 1945-1992. godine they say "U amaterskoj ligi igrali: Rovinj, Zagrebački Plavi (Zagreb), Metalac (Osijek) i Zadar. Pobjedio: Rovinj". But you are right: up to now there is no evidence of a match between Zadar and Neretva. Tomorrow I will cancel it. Ame71 (razgovor). 22:26, 16. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, I'm writing this before going to bed. I forgot to mention earlier that FSG Zrenjanin says

»U Zapadnu grupu uvrstili su se pančevački Dinamo koji je eliminisao Vrbasa, Merkator, uspešniji od mariborskog Železničara, vinkovački Dinamo, pobednik nad Rovinjom (prvak hrvatskih kvalifikacija, ispred Zadra, metkovićke Neretve, osječkog Metalca i Zagrebačkih plavih) i Kozara iz Bosanske Gradiške (pobednici četiri grupe u BiH bili su Sloga iz Doboja, Elektrobosna iz Jajca, Mladost iz Lištice, Bosna iz Sarajeva, u finalu je Sloga savladala Bosnu, zatim je u drugoj fazi Kozara bila uspešnija od Unisa, Jedinstvo od Sloge penalima, a na kraju je Kozara prošla revanš u Brčkom serijama jedanaesteraca).«

I think we have the wrong link to Ligaški vremeplov in the #Hrvatska section. I remember findingdates there, however these matches do not appear in Borba. – Croxyz ^💬 03:34, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, and another thing. I think that only the Rovinj vs Dinamo Vinkovci matchup could be considered as a Croatia qualifier. Originally Dinamo Vinkovci, a member of Druga savezna liga, didn't have to go through qualifiers in order to keep its position in Druga savezna liga. This also means that Rovinj stayed in the 3rd tier. I remember reading in a late July or early August Vinkovački list issue that it was decided that qualifiers should take place, several weeks after Dinamo Vinkovci began their preparations for the next season. As I said previously, the second leg between Rovinj and Dinamo Vinkovci took place just 3 days before the start of the next Druga savezna liga season. – Croxyz ^💬 03:40, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

Vinkovački list and that one Borba issue published a day after the 1st leg provide enough context for this Wikipedia article. – Croxyz ^💬 03:43, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Croxyz I think the best way is to put the republic qualifiers in 3. rang page, and the 2nd rang v 3rd rang matches in the qualifications page. Except the Kosovar one: they are "mixed". I found an error in Nogometno prvenstvo Jugoslavije – 3. ligaški rang 1971./72. : Junak Sinj didn't play the qualifications to fill the Druga liga, they were relegated from it. And Radnik VG were promoted: it's an error of sportsport.ba Ame71 (razgovor). 10:13, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Croxyz About 1971./72. page, it's all ok : the mistake was mine, I left the wording from the previous season. Now I've corrected it. Ame71 (razgovor). 11:09, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, I'm quite busy until Saturday, so I don't have the time to review everything. July 9th and July 16th Borba issues explicitly refer to the Vlaznimi vs Budućnost Peć match and the Dubočica vs Rad matches as qualifiers. For Bosnia and Herzegovina we sadly have no information, except the NK Široki Brijeg (Mladost Lištica) club book.

Page 27 and 28 of said book:

»Umjesto izravnog plasmana u Drugu ligu, Mladost se za nju morala boriti kroz dodatne kvalifikacije, jer je broj drugoligaških klubova smanjen. Umjesto četiriju skupina Duge lige, Zapadne u kojoj su igrali klubovi iz Slovenije, dijela Hrvatske i dijela BiH, Južne s klubovima iz Dalmacije, BiH južno od Zenice i Crne Gore, Sjeverne s klubovima iz Slavonije, dijela Bosne i Vojvodine i Istočne s klubovima iz Srbije, Kosova i Makedonije formirane su dvije skupine Druge savezne lige, Zapadna s klubovima iz Slovenije, Hrvatske, Suparnik Mladosti u kvalifikacijama za Drugu ligu zapad bila je sarajevska Bosna, prvak Sarajevske nogometne zone. Na prvoj utakmici na Pecari, a ujedno i posljednjoj na starom igralištu, nije bilo pogodaka. Završilo je 0:0. Na uzvratu u Sarajevu Mladost se dobro držala prvo poluvrijeme. S koševskog stadiona izravno se u sportsku emisiju „Sport i zabava“ povremeno javljao popularni radijski reporter Zoran Popovski. U nastavku utakmice nije donio dobre vijesti navijačima Mladosti. Bosna je pobijedila 6:0 i otišla dalje. No, nije se uspjela plasirati u Drugu ligu zapad pa je kao i Mladost završila u novoustanovljenoj Jedinstvenoj republičkoj ligi BiH. U bivšoj državi bio je to treći stupanj natjecanja. «

As I said previously, the decision to have Croatian qualifiers was made several weeks before the new season started. I'll have to go through Vinkovački list later when I'll have more time. If you want, you can expand FK Rad Beograd (see latest revision for sources, one is the Serbian Superleague page, and the other is the club page). I added the Borba information to the article. – Croxyz ^💬 12:17, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

Page 9, Page 1 & 9 and Page 1 & 9.

Borba [3]. Borba might have another report elsewhere. i don0't have the time to search for it. – Croxyz ^💬 12:26, 17. prosinca 2024. (CET)

@Ame71, I can't find the other Borba report. Shall we remove the amateur league from Kvalifikacije_za_popunu_Druge_savezne_lige_1973.#Hrvatska? – Croxyz ^💬 21:16, 22. prosinca 2024. (CET)